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Fast impressions and reactions to the Batman v. Superman Final Trailer and the Turkish Airlines Metropolis and Gotham TV Spots.
Answers, insights, and commentary on:
- Alfred as Batman’s partner
- Batman pushing edge of reality
- Directing Bruce Wayne
- Canonicity of promotional materials
- Catching Superman on camera
…and more.
Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice – Final Trailer | Warner Bros. Pictures
Fly to Gotham City with Turkish Airlines! | Turkish Airlines
Fly to Metropolis with Turkish Airlines! | Turkish Airlines
Metropolis City Guide | Turkish Airlines
Gotham City Guide | Turkish Airlines
Partnership “Flight” into the World of Batman v Superman | Turkish Airlines
Kill Bill: Volume 1 Track 9 | Tomoyasu Hotei
Web: ManOfSteelAnswers.com
Twitter: @mosanswers
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Proud member of the Superman Podcast Network!
Software Generated Transcript
Enjoy the long weekend!
I’m pretty sure the woman in the water (in the most recent/final?) trailer for Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice looks like Lois. It appears that she’s wearing the same wardrobe from when Amy and Henry did the Ice Bucket Challenge. http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32937191&postcount=801
I’m really curious about that shot because I wonder what gets her in that trouble and how she gets out of it (sure would be convenient for Arthur Curry to be around!).
This trailer has me SO PUMPED for the movie and I absolutely adored the Turkish Airlines spots. I enjoyed your idea of Lex and Bruce having to put up with each other as they shot those commercials. I hope we get to see a little bit of their competitive relationship. Seeing those two titans of industry go up against each other would be enough, but then you add The Batman and Superman’s arch enemy into the equation, their dynamic gets even more interesting!
Great episode of the podcast!
I went back and forth with whether to declare her Lois or not. First instinct I thought she was Lois, then I studied that face over and over and thought it didn’t look like Amy Adams… but doubted myself because of the situation and the strain… then thought the collar looked like the clothing in the “psychotic” scene. So, uncertain, I waffled. However, that link you provide seems definitive. I think you’re right that it definitely is supposed to be Lois… but it might be a stunt-person for that split second… maybe?
Haha, about Aquaman, I wanted to say something about how I knew any instance of water is going to make fans speculate about him, but I thought it came off unnecessarily skeptical so I didn’t say it. I mean, where else are we expecting him if NOT related to a water scene?! If he helps Lois out that would be a real fast-track to trust, because as open-minded as I try to be, imagine how scary Jason Momoa’s Aquaman would be emerging out of the water, trident in hand, giving some sort of Game-of-Thrones post-captive glower (rather than, say, his beaming Baywatch smile, heh)! In a weird way, short of him saving Lois or fighting Doomsday, he could easily be assumed to be an enemy. Poor Atlanteans… people always assume the worst. No wonder Aquaman and Namor are so grumpy.
Too kind for this rushed episode, but thanks! I’m really enjoying the double-dose of Supergirl Radio with Adventures now too.
I think it might be the angle of the shot, her smile and relative position in said shot that has you double guessing, but that is definitely Amy Adams’ smile and that is her in the tub with Henry!
Anyhow, love your podcasts and I can’t wait to hear what you think of BvS!
Thanks for listening!
100% it’s Amy in the tub, you’ve got it. Where I’m less certain is at about 1:44 you see this:
http://i.imgur.com/d8Pbm5Gb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/e83mschb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xoIqwSg.jpg
And I’m 85% that it’s supposed to be Lois but far less certain that’s Amy Adams. Let me know what you think.
kinda looks asian doc
Great Podcast, keep it up.
Thanks for listening! Will do my best as time and responsibilities allow.
So the first thing I thought when I saw the maps, was that Heroes Park was built over the ashes of ground zero. Based on its proximity to the waterfront and the Daily Planet building, it seems to be in the right place as opposed to other parks on the map. It also appears to be the right size, about 6-8 blocks, as I had estimated in a previous post. Assuming this is the park where the Superman statue is, and assuming that it is indeed the downed Scout Ship under the dome we see in the trailer, it would make sense that this is where the Black Zero attacked.
If so, this is some nice visual reference/evidence of the size of the destruction compared to the size of the city. And this map even appears to me to be only a detail – the area here would only be about the lower 1/5 of Manhattan (now, Metropolis may not be nearly the size of Manhattan, but it sure looked bigger than this in Man of Steel). This will be useful to explain the scope of the destruction in Man of Steel and express visually how untrue it is that “half the city” was destroyed and “millions of people” died.
Yeah, there are some great insights from the map. One of the takeaways I liked was the relative positioning of Metropolis to Gotham, the ferry to Gotham, and ground zero to Hob’s Bay. All of those sync up perfectly with the film, the sun going down in the west, the ferry, and the approach from the air over open waters.
It might get a little more dicey with respect to Wayne Financial and LexCorp Tower. The building Zod brings down with his heat vision is presumably Wayne Financial and based on a shot where we see Superman exiting the building we know it is at a T-junction. We also know Superman only travels a few blocks before crashing into the parking deck that is next to a lexcorp building in progress (note when the satellite debris is falling we see yet another lexcorp building so, it’s unclear if this building is the LCT… yes, Zod and Kal fought in it, but they did relatively little damage to it).
Ahhh… I’m falling down the rabbit hole. There’s a lot of little details to juggle, reconcile, etc. I didn’t want to get too mired in it without the time to record the full thing, so I didn’t get into it, but it’ll be interesting to see what BvS adds to allow us to reconstruct the fight better. We actually have several missing segments of the Superman vs. Zod fight…
…When Zod knocks Superman out of Ground Zero, the building Superman smashes into is NOT Wayne Financial. In fact, both Superman and Zod enter Wayne Financial from the same direction and hole that they exit. So that entire segment of the fight is unseen. Zod and Superman fighting all the way up to the satellite and all the way back, etc.
It’ll be interesting to see if BvS fills in those blanks.
Your amazing, I love the way you really analyze the little things no one else pays attention to and make them seem important as well. To be perfectly honest, I prefer your view on the dceu (or JLU) more than Youtube reviews, reactions, etc.
Point is, I think your awesome and should continue the great work.
Thanks for listening, I appreciate the kind words, they’re very encouraging.
I come here every week. You’re the best. I would’ve just liked that go a bit in details about the final trailer. You seemed in a rush 😉 . Nonetheless these are great keep up the good work.
Thanks for listening and the feedback, you’re totally right, it was a rush job because I have the house to myself for 40 minutes that night tops before kids and cooking and chores would make recording usable audio impossible. I furiously scribbled ten minutes of notes and then went right to the mic and kind of rushed along expecting the house to be filled with chaos any moment.
Normally, I like to take my time and be more retrospective and deliberate, but we’re also in the last stages of marketing where if I don’t comment on time, the moment passes onto the next great piece of material. At least, that’s how I felt about an incredible trailer dropping even as I was putting together the pieces of the Turkish Airlines episode. I was going to recreate the fight using the maps, talk about what drives people to build big, what is says about Luthor’s character, historical examples of LCT (as well as the Spire from The Question series featuring Superman), technological / anti-superman advantages of having the tallest building, etc. However, I didn’t get around to recording that part before the trailer dropped. If I stuck with the plan, you’d get 39 Monday and trailer reaction probably a week later… but I figured more people would rather have more immediate timely reactions.
The good news is that my notes and clips are intact and can always be used in the future. Plus I get to enjoy Valentines without worrying about the show and the docket is clear for anything that might drop next week.
But I totally get where you’re coming from, I would’ve liked to do more analysis myself, that’s definitely my preference and tendency… but I’m also in a weird position because this is all for a prospective movie versus retrospectively analyzing a released film. I kind of feel a responsibility to not reveal too much for something coming. Like I’m pretty sure I figured out something big which I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere else, but I know I’d rather people enjoy that on the screen rather than get some silly credit for figuring it out. Still dialing in the balance on that.
Thanks for the feedback and letting me ramble on the behind the scenes process.
I am really really exited. I’ve tried to get my expectations as low as possible, not taking every piece of info as the whole true (I know those aren’t the whole movie). But I share my level of excitement for this movie
Me too. Keeping an open mind and optimistic excitement is a good strategy. I think you’re on track to really enjoying the film.
I think the trouble comes when we think we’re “entitled” to a specific take, execution, scene, etc. Suddenly ignoring all the good we get because something didn’t go our way. As long as we keep our expectations in check, we leave open the possibility of having them be met and exceeded. I feel sorry for people who say the entire movie will be ruined for them if they don’t get a shirt rip, if they don’t get a spit curl, if Superman doesn’t dominate every fight, if the color is a certain tint, etc.
Same. It’s kinda sad that some Superman “fans” are even yearning for the failure/cancellation of the Cinematic Universe simply because they didn’t liked MoS. DC fans have been waiting for a live-action Justice League film for so long, and Superman is literally in the front and center of it, but what do the “Real Superman Fans” (as they call themselves) say? “He’s not wearing any trunks, so that makes it a terrible depiction. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong simply because yes.”
Superficiality, ungratefulness and elitism is taking over the joy of so much people. They lose because they want to. What a shame.
I always wondered why they spread such negativity in purpose, what do they win? If a franchise fails, nobody wins. Would they rather choose to lose the opportunity of enjoying a unique cinematic universe composed of films made with passion than give it a chance and see more Superman films down the line only to be “proven” right?
As I’ve stated before, the fact that some self-proclaimed fans of the greatest superhero of history are such a cynical, pessimistic and close-minded bunch is embarrassing, I’m so glad those are the small minority.
Haha, it was tempting not to put Aesop’s The Fox and the Grapes fable (from where we get the Sour Grapes expression) in the storytime episode. Kidding. I think it’s covered in 41. Sort of in the way fans can take all the best from every seminal Batman or use those as definitive lines, I think MOS will be something like that for Superman in the long run. Until you put out that definitive, “here’s the line” kind of work, creators are just going to keep toying with it and inching closer and retreating, but never setting something meaningful into the minds of the collective consciousness… sincere comic fans might have seen the inches and evolution, but pop culture gets stuck with the last version only. After MOS sticks and percolates, it may be- sort of- TDKR for Superman while Donner’s acts as Batman ’66. Then if we get a generation of kids raised on something in-between (like Batman TAS)… we’re in-shape for future fans to finally understand Superman as a multiversal hero as the default.
Hi Doctor Awkward, or you prefer a simple “Doc”? I have a few things that I want to ask your opinion about so I’ll go to the points.
1) It has been a while since I explored this topic, but I wanted to bring up something that I’m sure you’ve heard about. The “Superman II” hypocrisy. It never ceases to amaze me how some people claims that “MoS Superman isn’t Superman because he killed Zod”, that “Cavill’s Superman should be more like Reeve’s Superman!”, stating to be “Real Superman fans” and that the classical Superman is the example to follow. How they conveniently forget such thing is indeed the definition of hypocrisy, while tearing down MoS they’re tearing down the very film(s) they’re defending, is crazy!
Of course there’s the famous excuse “there was a deleted scene (that has never been found AFAIK) with Zod and his followers alive and incarcerated in the original cut”, but assuming such thing is true, that doesn’t changes the fact it was deleted, thus it wasn’t meant to be part of the film at the end. The film ended with Superman murdering a defenseless and powerless Zod with a smile in his face, plain and simple. And if such defense would be valid, so would be the fact that Zod wasn’t originally going to die in MoS, that the idea of Superman killing Zod wasn’t added till later on and wasn’t part of Snyder’s original scheme.
2) What is your stance in the notion that one of the two leads of this film is an “underdog”? Many state that Batman is certain to “win” the fight cuz he’s the underdog, and the underdog must always win in order for the story to be interesting. Like the tales of Goliath vs David and the Hare vs the Turtle, nobody cares that Goliath was larger and stronger, nor that the Hare was faster, only that their disadvantaged opponents emerged victorious against all odds. Would the opposite had happened, such conflicts would had been boring and with no moral to the story.
HOWEVER! I can’t shake off the feeling that the opposite can also be valid. With the mayor part of the general audience and fanbase so sure that Batman will defeat Superman, that there is 0% chance that the powerful alien will even scratch the man with gadgets, that there is no way in an eternity that they will even allow Superman to be depicted superior to Batman (plus additional arguments that include comic sells, popularity and focus in trailers)…doesn’t that makes Superman the “real” underdog?
No real preference, whatever you like. “DrAwkward” because it’s a palindrome (same spelled forwards and backwards), but “Doc” is more like a name than an alias.
1) I think tradition and other continuities do provide a precedent, but doesn’t necessarily address the underlying issues, so I generally don’t use it as a focus of my arguments for this particular issue… but I haven’t gotten to it in the show yet. Regarding the canonicity of cuts… that’s also kind of muddy. You point out that it would be nice to have a universal rule which should be consistently applied to all works and varying cuts. However, in practice, I think you’ll find mainstream audiences adhere to different cuts for different reasons on a case by case basis. It isn’t a neat, logical, or elegant rule, but it’s what happens in real life. So I think it’s an argument in the quiver but not a main point to rely upon, in my opinion.
2) I sympathize with what you’re saying, but that’s kind of semantics and equivocating real-world popularity versus in-story power. I mean, Goliath and the Hare are- by virtue of the stories- unpopular in the real-world, but that doesn’t make them the “underdogs” in a sense that most would recognize… the only thing that separates them from Superman is an authorial impetus and interest in seeing Superman fairly treated as well… which, in a way, makes the author / creator, the “true” underdog moreso that Superman (since the Batman-loving public will gladly see Superman pummeled). The real triumph is if the author can overcome the conventions of an underdog story where BOTH adversaries come off respected in the end, even with an overwhelming favorite. I get the impulse to do what you’re doing- reframing Superman as the underdog- and Cavill’s self-deprecating Omaze charity video shows he’s fully aware of the issue… but I they’re two different metrics (in-story power vs. real-world popularity) so our cause is confused if we resort to equivocation. It’s the kind of maddening thing done when saying everything the World Engine did is the same as what Superman did or that killing in the defense of others is the same as cold-blooded premeditated murder, etc.
http://thebibleofsnyder.com/2016/man-of-steel-themes/
Even tough you’ve probably covered a lot of this on the podcast, i thought that this was an interesting article and something that you could share on your next post.
http://thebibleofsnyder.com/2016/man-of-steel-themes/
Even though you’ve probably covered a lot of this on the podcast, i thought this was an interesting article and something that you could share on your next post.
Also Something you’ve probably haven’t talked about was that in last October, Seth-Grahame Smith was in negotiations to write/direct The Flash. Seeing as how you rarely talk about news unless it’s officially confirmed by Warners/Trade Paper but since he’s your favorite Superhero(second only to Superman) what were your thoughts on this, were you aware of Smith’s work and what did you think of The Flash’s Suit from the Concept Art?
P.S. Have you seen Deadpool? If so, what did you think of it and are you surprised by the instant reaction it’s received?
Thanks, I’m a fan of the site.
Flash seems too distant to me to think about right now. No real thoughts about the filmmakers yet. Honestly, the concept art didn’t land for me. I’m not offended by it, if that’s what it is, I’ll be OK, but I also didn’t love it immediately. Which is fine. I’ve definitely come to adore the Suicide Squad’s look despite finding it confronting at first.
I saw Deadpool. I’m not surprised by the reaction because the appetite for the novelty of a film like this was just right.
Hey Doc, when’s the next podcast? Hope you’ll tackle the confirmed start of principal photography of Justice League P.1. Keep up the great work. Thanks.
I was just planning it out.
There is so much awesome news coming out… the soundtrack samples, WW set photos, Omaze, merch-tie-ins, and more. I’m pretty sure I could put together an episode just listing off that stuff with a little discussion of each, but I’m not sure anyone would listen to that in the future (or if I were even a few days late). In reading and replying to the comments though, I think I’ve got an episode idea… not sure if I can get it out this weekend, but as a hint, it’ll probably be titled: “#TeamSuperman” … maybe?
As I was telling Halberdier17, there’s a bonus episode already recorded and edited waiting in the wings (but probably not strong enough to drop on its own), so whenever #TeamSuperman drops, you’ll be getting another extra episode too. So 2+ hours of content this weekend or the next.
Cool. You think JL part 1 can make the Nov. 2017 date? Its just a bit over 1 and a half years away.
Obviously we have new info now with the Momoa photo and shoot date, but even before that my position was that much of the delay for BvS was in lining up the pieces for the Justice League. I fully expect them to make their date and any adjustments will be strategic rather than being behind.
Justice League will start filming on April 11th.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/21/justice-league-starts-April-11?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter
Thanks, I kinda knew this was coming so I held off on addressing the whole second-hand reaction storm.
Forgive me, I’m just going to ramble in public to give a show status update (say nothing of real-life which has been crazy).
I actually have an 56-minute episode recorded, edited, and in the can… but it’s largely fan-fiction (“What if Clark had saved Jonathan?”) so I don’t want to release it as a numbered episode or on its own. Basically, whenever the next episode comes out, you’ll get a bonus storytime episode with it.
I was originally working the next episode to be about Cross Fire, General Mills, and Time Out Shortlist Metropolis / Gotham… but as much as I enjoyed them, they’re not hard / serious continuity so I’m not as inspired.
However, we did get a lot of more substantive stuff from all the soundtrack first-listens, Wonder Woman set photos, Cavill’s Omaze video, Jeep ad, and the Justice League (Snyder/Momoa) tweet. But I don’t want to just list off a bunch of updates either. Kinda of struggling to find something to say about all this… some theme or hook or analysis to tie to together beyond just being current events.
I started to bodge together all my earlier cut segments, but that was even more disjointed.
Huh… I think I figured out my next episode. Just needed to ramble to brainstorm. Question is whether I can get it done this week? Thanks for the prompt and tolerating the stream of consciousness, it genuinely helped!
Your rambling is eloquent commentary akin to music my ears doc. Thank you for this site.
Hey, Doc, I know you don’t personally speculate about Box Office performance, which is wise no doubt, but I found this to be a very illuminating read about BvS in particular, but also ancillarily about Man of Steel and basic movie economics in general:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2016/02/19/relax-fans-batman-v-superman-wont-flop-despite-rumors/#65441df270bb
Without mentioning it by name, this article is essentially a response to the recent HitFix controversy surrounding the comments made about internal WB reaction and concern for the commerical success of the movie. It’s not really worth getting into all of that, but the Forbes article is a pretty interesting read.
I try not to get too bogged down in Box Office performance since it primarily revolves around comparisons to other movies and bragging rights and so forth (which is to say I DO get bogged down in it, but know it’s a quagmire). However a healthy box office relates to further investment in follow-up movies, so at the very least I like to be assured that the box office is going to be strong enough to help support the production of more DC films. Anyway, enjoy!
Lots of good points… though in the end there’s no formula to these things… good and reasonable guesses, but the box office can and does routinely defy expectations. Hopefully in the case of BvS for the better. I’m not saying his guesses don’t have reason behind them, but box office projections always feel like stock market (or sports) analysis to me. Reasoned guessing but still ultimately guessing which is why you don’t pour your savings into the WB (or bet on a sports team) as if it were a sure thing. At the same time, people love that analysis which is why you have dedicated channels, papers, sites and more. Just not my area of interest, but I’ll definitely take note if BvS breaks records or does astonishingly well.
DrAwkward, what do you think of the Director Cut of BvS being rated R?
http://filmratings.com/downloads/cara_rating_bulletin.pdf
You think this has something to do with the success of “Deadpool”, or is simply a reminiscence of Snyder’s previous works like “300” and “Watchmen”?
It doesn’t have anything to do with the success of Deadpool. The Director’s Cut was rated by the MPAA on September 30th, they didn’t know Deadpool would be a success back then.
The only reason we learned about it is because somebody noticed it on the website. Other movies had different rating between the Theatrical Version and the Director’s Cut: Daredevil, The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies, and The Wolverine off the top of my head.
It could even be from an earlier instance before they cut it to be PG-13 like Avengers which had to be edited because Phil Coulson’s death scene was too graphic for a PG-13 movie. It was because he was impaled through the back. WB probably edited the movie to either cut the scene of violence completely or they edited it in a way that it didn’t get an R rating anymore; they figured they would include it in the Director’s Cut since they already have that cut of the movie created.
Yeah, I didn’t payed attention to the date of the rating, sorry is my bad.
However, sad thing is that won’t stop scooper websites from claiming that WB is “following the footsteps of ‘Deadpool'”, conveniently forgetting “Deadpool” is hardly the first R rated comic book film.
A small, but potentially important, correction… it’s an “Ultimate Cut” not a “Director’s Cut”… if you follow what Snyder did in Watchmen, the Director’s Cut was things Snyder would have included to tell the platonic ideal version of the story but with a run-time not cooperative with Theaters… while the Ultimately Cut was the kitchen sink for anything of sufficient quality and production included to satisfy the completist. I highlight that because until told otherwise, I believe the Theatrical Cut IS Snyder’s Director’s Cut… or his platonic ideal version of the story. Whereas the Ultimate Cut includes additional scenes, dialog, action, etc. which was shot and of sufficient quality to be woven in… but which Snyder cut-out for a reason (time in some cases, but also just things he would exclude from the story; basically deleted scenes woven in, but not what the director would have done or cut himself). Maybe.
I’m not going to fret about this until or unless we know more. The Matrix was R but rarely recalled as such. The Passion of the Christ was the highest-grossing R of all time without compromising the character and nature of its title character, so I don’t think an R rating means, necessarily, any compromise of Batman or Superman. For now, my attention is on the Theatrical version as-if it is and will be the only version (although this does go back to our complicated issues with canon / continuity from previous comments). We shall see.