Check out this video by Samuel Otten.
“This video catalogues homages from the 2013 WB movie Man of Steel to various pieces of Superman source material.”
Samuel continues:
“If you see others that I missed, please put them in the comments. The following are the recipients of the homages that I found:
Superman: The Movie
Superman II
Superman: Birthright
Superman: Secret Origin
Superman: Earth One
Action Comics #1
Superman #1
All-Star Superman
Superman: Last Son of Krypton
Superman: The Animated Series
The comic books are all published by DC Comics (http://www.dccomics.com) and the films and animated series are by Warner Bros.
Music is “Kaleidoscope” by Samuel Otten, based on the short story by Ray Bradbury from The Illustrated Man. (c) Fibre Studios”
Superman: The Movie received the most homages, but I think Superman: Earth One had the most substantial homages (i.e., the plot and character beats were very similar, but it was Tyrell instead of Zod).
I’m very curious about homages that I missed because I just hadn’t read or paid enough attention to other pieces of source material.
Hi again Doctor, I’ll like say it’s been a while, but I’m really flowing with questions lately, so please forgive all my raising doubts and let me know if I’m suffocating you with all this questions. Don’t answer me if you don’t want.
It may be all this Batman Day hype that’s in the air, but once again I feel a little gloomy, don’t worry I’m sane, I just wondered if we could have a little talk regarding the current situation around Superman and Batman in film, what it may befall to both characters, their fan bases, and their impact overall. I could have online conversations on Reddit or Facebook, buy I wanted to talk directly to you because you always use facts and reason when answering questions, and that’s what I need now.
Were to start…first I want to ask your opinion about how do you think the general audience will see both Superman and Batman after the BvS’s release. Something that seems a little weird and sometimes paradoxical to me is how people can cherish one character so much that they can either be attached to a single version/incarnation of it and completely disregard another, or love it so much that they are willing to accept any version of it.
Superman, for example: The one incarnated by Christopher Reeve is (and still is) by many the definite Superman, and many claim that he will never be replaced, no matter how good another actor is. For a time I wondered if that people were either attached to the character of Superman, or the incarnation created by the actor himself. I’m inclined to the latter seeing how many reacted to Superman Returns and some to Man of Steel.
Batman, on the other hand: The one incarnated by Michael Keaton was almost immediately replaced by Christian Bale’s as the definite Batman by many, and that one is slowly being replaced by Ben Affleck’s. I’m amazed how some people are so fast to discard their previous “irreplaceable” Batman in favor to the new one, even through it was Bale’s Batman the one that made the character as popular as he is now (for the most part at least).
Is it that some people held Superman in a pedestal so high that the first version of him is untouchable? Or the opinion some people have of Batman is such, that they are willing to accept any version of him only because it’s Batman?
I’m aware that both Val Kilmer and George Clooney easily prove that not every incarnation of him will be accepted as “definite” only because it’s a Batman, but it does proves that some people has an “expectation” that an actor has to fulfill in order to be accepted as definite. And there’s when I’m kinda torn…
This is my own point of view, but maybe some people has an expectation of Superman so high, that it will never be fulfilled by any actor besides Christopher Reeve? Whereas their expectation of Batman isn’t as high as Superman’s, and thus it isn’t so hard for another actor to fulfill it?
Maybe I’m just dreaming, convincing myself that the world will always have Superman in a higher regard than Batman, but I want to know, what do you think?
I don’t think you can boil it all down to any one thing, but if I were writing the point-heading on a brief meant to do that, it would be that Batman doesn’t represent goodness and Superman has come to… for better or worse.
Batman is good, cool, interesting, etc. However, the heart of his character is a somewhat base instinct for revenge (we can dress it up as justice or something else, but ultimately, he’s a vigilante that punches people… no version of Batman escapes that). Since he doesn’t represent “goodness” the standards of what he must be is substantially looser, he just has to satisfy vengeance. Superman, initially, as a character was just another character, so he just had to entertain… however, for a variety of reasons, he began to become a symbol of goodness. The problem?
Goodness is a deeply personal ideal, relatively specific, and rarely agreed upon.
It doesn’t matter if you’re liberal or conservative, religious or faithless, patriotic or not, etc. with respect to Batman, because Batman isn’t speaking to your values, he’s acting out of his hurt… whether he’s right or wrong doesn’t say much about you since it’s his personal story. However, if Superman represents some sort of idea, his very nature and existence is commentary on you and your values. If you simultaneously think Superman is the ideal man and that the ideal man should never drink, should never kill, never doubt, never struggle… then you’re going to have a problem with Man of Steel because it’s telling you something else and arguably challenging your values.
Personally, I think it’s easier or more reasonable to disconnect Superman from being the ideal than requiring Superman to ascribe to any one set of ideals that will satisfy all of humanity.
At the same time, I think it is worth pushing back on some of the values if only to help people determine their own convictions. For example, if you completely believe that Superman should never under any circumstance kill and should never ever be taken in that direction creatively, then the corollary of that is agreeing that Superman can’t and shouldn’t participate in the real world where such circumstances can arise to some degree. Given that violence and force is common to the Superman mythos, to me it’s a reasonable and inevitable question to raise. Of course, reasonable minds will differ. Heck, some may believe it’s okay to be inconsistent and hypocritical about it, because consistency it itself a value of subjective worthiness. The point is to have a discussion.
So the podcast has a viewpoint and tries to elucidate it, but “this show is not trying to convert anybody” even if they hold Donner’s to be superior, I’m not saying they’re wrong, I’m saying why that view isn’t true for me. Which is why I don’t generally do “hit pieces” meant to take down other critics or views… at most, I point out logical inconsistencies based on the fact I value reason and logic, but not requiring that everyone does.
Basically, if I’m asked to put down someone else’s opinion I’m not really game for that.
Thanks for anwering me Doctor, you really are a real-life superhero.
I think it’s like Mr. Cavill said, “Batman’s story is easy.”, he didn’t said it as an insult, he said it because that’s how it is, even the Batman fans can’t argue with that.
This days is easier to be angry, grudgeful and broody than being happy, forgiving and hopeful. I even remember how some people liked more the Superman from “Gods and Monsters” over the real one solely because he was a ‘meaner’ version of the character.
We can discuss this for days but we don’t have the capacity nor the right to tell people what to think, so how they will react at these characters after BvS is up to everyone, and I don’t want to keep taking your time, so I will only ask you one more question, yes, just one more.
Hypothetically considering, if the Batman from Affleck does overshadow the Superman of Cavill and becomes the “main” attraction of the film, do you actually think that WB would really go as far as giving Batman yet another trilogy and actually build a whole Cinematic Universe around Batman?
I know I promised not to ask anymore rumor-based questions, but I don’t ask it as if you think it ‘will’ happen, I ask it if you think it ‘could’ happen. You are well-aware of how these companies work, so I wondered if something like that would or not be so far-fetched, specially if what this person said is true: http://i.imgur.com/8HUhI4S.jpg
This is my last question for you, I give you my word that after now I will stop being a torn in your side. Promise.
You’re not a thorn, I’m just insanely busy. I was severely torn between watching Supergirl on my DVR vs prepping for a trial this morning… but went with the trial prep. I’m answering month-old comments just to unwind before I head back to the office, so I look forwards to the questions, thank you for asking.
The Total Film article makes it clear that Affleck isn’t locked to direct yet, but that production is on their mind, but that timing is also an issue. The WB will do whatever makes the money and Batman is objectively easier to monetize than Superman… his face is mostly covered making likeness less of an issue, he has tons of gadgets which can be merchandised and licensed, and his supporting cast tends to be costumed allowing the same. Superman basically has to be played by Cavill, he doesn’t have vehicles gadgets and toys to market, and most of his supporting cast are normal people who have the same likeness issue. It doesn’t mean that demand for Superman can’t outpace Superman making those differences irrelevant… that was literally the case until the mid-60s… people wanted and liked Superman much more no matter how much they tried to promote Batman… so much so they would buy nonsensical Superman merchandise (and characters) simply out of adoration. I see Man of Steel as something akin to Batman’s TDKR ’86, in that it’s going to open people’s minds to what Superman could be and the depth of the character, which will allow them to enjoy more traditional takes without the angst of worrying about old allegations of “too-powerful, too-boring, too-perfect, etc.”
I’m rambling, but I guess I don’t worry about market forces beyond my control. If people want Batman the WB will give it to them and if their appetite is big enough the WB will be encouraged to offer them Superman on the side. The best the WB can do is offer varieties on Superman until one takes or explodes, or even if it doesn’t (Gladwell’s talk on the pitfalls on market research, adapting a portion of Blink, about how the market rejected the Aeron Chair… until it didn’t).
My general advice is that worrying or jealousy or angst or anger doesn’t get a Superman fan anywhere but bitterness and a pool of their own bile. I literally don’t have time for that! I’d rather extract as much enjoyment out of life and the Superman media I have to privilege to experience now with joy and gratitude. Consider the countless fans of Superman who after 77 years never got to see Man of Steel. Consider the countless fans of Superman and Batman who will never get to see them together on the silver screen with this level of budget, visual fidelity, this much passion, continuity, and promise… and I’m insanely grateful to get to be alive now and appreciate it as an adult.
I want to count my blessings before I take up non-existent, unproven, and speculated grievances for others!